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Air France / KLM Virtual Airlines Forums | AFVA Operations | Saudia joined Skyteam

AFV597
Captain, A380-800

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Ciudad de México, DF Mexico

438 legs, 711.3 hours
438 legs, 711.3 hours ACARS

Posted onPost created on May 31 2012 14:42 ET by Peter Geissen

http://www.skyteam.com/en/About-us/Press/News/20111/Saudia-Joins-SkyTeam-/

Will there be more Codeshare flights available in the near future?

Peter Geissen

Captain, A380-800

AFV612
Captain, B747-400

Joined on January 29 2012
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Milan, Lombardia Italy

294 legs, 862.0 hours
41 legs, 104.1 hours online
294 legs, 862.0 hours ACARS
6 legs, 16.6 hours event

Posted onPost created on June 02 2012 07:29 ET by Federico Di Biase

it would be really nice.

Federico Di Biase

Captain, B747-400

AFV064
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Howell, MI USA

255 legs, 1,315.4 hours
184 legs, 929.2 hours online
251 legs, 1,279.7 hours ACARS
3 legs, 9.1 hours event
304 legs, 1,416.0 hours total
0 legs dispatched, 1.1 hours

Posted onPost created on June 02 2012 21:14 ET by Steve Orloff

It depends. If Air France attaches a flight number to any of those flights, then we will absolutely see flights under Saudia. If they don't, then they won't be considered a "code share" partner, so we won't be adding them.

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6,141 legs, 16,455.0 hours
614 legs, 1,045.2 hours online
5,369 legs, 13,981.5 hours ACARS
42 legs, 241.5 hours event
6,427 legs, 17,292.5 hours total
366 legs dispatched, 328.7 hours

Posted onPost created on June 09 2012 23:44 ET by Brian Hankey

I just actually read that the AF route from CDG to Jeddah is being cancelled and taken over by Saudia. Not sure if that means that AF will codeshare that route on Saudia aircraft or if we won't have that service at all anymore.

Brian Hankey (AFV230)

AFV493
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343 legs, 538.6 hours online
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318 legs dispatched, 179.0 hours

Posted onPost created on June 10 2012 05:48 ET by Roger Taylor

We already have Saudia in our schedules from Paris-Jeddah and Paris-Riyadh.

We have had these for some time. And to answer your question, when AF Cancels Jeddah Saudia is increasing there frequency to cover. Now whether Saudia joining Skyteam will mean we will see more Middle Eastern routes that remains to be seen. Remember if AF nor KLM Codeshare we don't have them, just because an Airline is in the Alliance doesn't automatically mean we have there flights.

Current SV flights.

SV127 Leg 1 00:55 JED - CDG 06:10 A330-300
SV129 Leg 1 10:45 JED - CDG 16:00 A330-300
SV126 Leg 1 11:10 CDG - JED 18:05 A330-300 (Mirrors Current AF's Schedule)
SV130 Leg 1 17:45 CDG - JED 00:40 A330-300

SV143 Leg 1 00:20 RUH - CDG 00:55 A330-300
SV144 Leg 1 13:55 CDG - RUH 21:00 A330-300

Roger Taylor (AFV493)

Posted onPost created on June 11 2012 12:33 ET by Peter Geissen

Ok, thanks for the answers. I' m just wondering, talking about RW, whats the point of joining an Alliance, if the Partners don' benefit from codeshare in the Region!? So, I hope we' ll see some more Codeshare in the Middle East.

Peter Geissen

Captain, A380-800

Posted onPost created on June 11 2012 13:25 ET by Roger Taylor

I comes down to how much traffic there is....

Air France deems not to be enough if they are pulling out of the Jeddah Market only leaving Riyadh as there Saudi Arabian Destination, which the flight will continue on to Djibouti. Currently Djibouti and Jeddah Flights are combined Paris-Jeddah-Djibouti when Air France pulls out of Jeddah it will be tacked onto to the Riyadh flight thus becoming Paris-Riyadh-Djibouti. The fact that is routing is covering 2 totally different markets shows that the need is not there, but doing it the way that they are gives them still a presence in each market.

KLM only serves Damman which continues on to Kuwait, again if the need was there then they'd have more flights.

Air France serves Damman also but only in the freight business not Passenger.

Due to lack of Tourist Trade in Saudi Arabia your got going to drawl large crowds, and that almost 100% of the traffic is Saudi's and Foreign Workers.

How Saudi Arabia works as a country, Transit Passengers are almost zero unless your Saudi National.

When Saudi Arabian (Now Saudia again) Started there flights to Paris from both Riyadh and Jeddah, they only operated A320's, now that AF is Pulling out, they have increased the size to A330s only to cover that little extra traffic.

Now Saudia joining Skyteam, may not be any benefit to us Air France/KLM but it may be worth it with other Airlines mainly in Asia, China being a big Market, so with have China Southern as a partner opens a huge market, just as it has done for us.

Both Air France and KLM cover a good chunk of the Middle East Market already, so the need for more flights in the area is next to none.

We codeshare with Gulf Air (through KLM) and the destinations are more or less to Pakistan which is a market not served by AF or KLM.

Airlines will only codeshare if it is of benefit to each other, hence the large network we have in terms of Partners.

It all boils down to what we need and what they can offer. Skyteam is an ever expanding Alliance, each airline bring with it a Market that will suit some Partners and not Others.

So while I would love to see more Saudia Flights (specially domestic flights) I am hesitant to say there will be. Saudia will benefit more from AF and KLMs European Network than AF and KLM will benefit from Saudia's, yes they serve destinations in the region that AF/KLM don't but not by much.

Air France and KLM have 2 different Markets with very little over lap other than the obvious US market.

That's why you see different destinations served by each company with only a few over laps.

Air France Middle East Destinations...

Amman, Jordan
Beirut, Lebanon
Damman, Saudi Arabia (Freight Only)
Dubai, UAE
Jeddah, Saudi Arabia (soon to cease)
Kuwait City, Kuwait (Freight Only)
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
Tel Aviv, Israel

KLM Middle East Destinations...

Abu Dhabi, UAE
Bahrain, Bahrain
Damman, Saudi Arabia (Passenger)
Doha, Qatar
Dubai, UAE
Kuwait City, Kuwait (Passenger)
Tehran, Iran
Tel Aviv, Israel

So looking at the two markets, the only 2 destinations that AF and KLM serve Passengers are Dubai and Tel Aviv.

So any AF PAX wanting Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, Damman, Doha, Kuwait or Tehran, get routed through Amsterdam as any KLM PAX wanting Amman, Beirut or Riyadh would get routed through Paris.

The only benefit I could see with Saudia's next work would be there Regional Flights to India, being that we only serve Bangalore, Delhi and Mumbai. India being a growing market this would would be logical, though I would love to see Jet Airways start codesharing with either KLM or AF then we'd have a massive Network coverage....

Now if you got to the bottom of this and your still awake then great, if not sorry, but I just wanted to give you the prospective of how alliances work...

Roger...

Roger Taylor (AFV493)

Posted onPost created on June 11 2012 14:58 ET by Peter Geissen

No worries Roger, I am awake. Thanks for all the Infos, very interesting points indeed. Well, hope dies last, so we'll see what happens.

Peter Geissen

Captain, A380-800

Posted onPost created on June 11 2012 21:14 ET by Brian Hankey

And now you will all see why Roger makes such an awesome VP Operations smile

AFV611
Senior Captain, B737-800
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Posted onPost created on June 12 2012 07:49 ET by Paul Hale

Brian Hankey wrote:

And now you will all see why Roger makes such an awesome VP Operations :)

+1, great work as always Roger

Paul Hale

Senior Captain, B737-800

AFV651
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Posted onPost created on June 12 2012 23:19 ET by Luca Di Biase

hip hip hurra' for Roger smile

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